WEBVTT NOTE Transcript 2024-03-08 from MP4 by https://elvery.net/prototypes/transcribe/ on my MacBook Air M1 on maximum quality setting. NOTE Body very lightly edited eg "RedBot" to "Radbot". 00:00.000 --> 00:04.300 product is Radbot and this thing is technically 00:04.300 --> 00:08.480 Radbot 2R, so it's Radbot 2 with a radio in it. 00:08.480 --> 00:11.080 I'm Damon Hart-Davis, right, here we go. 00:11.080 --> 00:15.140 So tell them what you're gonna tell them. 00:15.140 --> 00:17.680 What problem is Radbot trying to solve? 00:17.680 --> 00:19.000 What's our solution? 00:19.000 --> 00:23.600 A little bit of history, where are we now? 00:23.600 --> 00:25.840 And there's a bit of alphabet soup there. 00:25.840 --> 00:26.760 How does it work? 00:26.760 --> 00:29.720 Don't worry, I won't wait right until then to tell you, 00:29.720 --> 00:31.640 but I'll try and make sure I'm in a position 00:31.640 --> 00:33.360 to answer a question. 00:33.360 --> 00:37.400 And some secrets for devs and the more techie of you in here 00:37.400 --> 00:38.520 who'd like to tinker. 00:38.520 --> 00:42.280 Okay, so what is the problem? 00:42.280 --> 00:46.560 The problem that we're trying to fix is climate change. 00:46.560 --> 00:49.360 It's actually written into the articles 00:49.360 --> 00:52.840 and memoranda of Vestemi, that its job is to help 00:52.840 --> 00:56.680 ameliorate climate change and we're doing it 00:56.680 --> 00:57.960 through space heating. 00:59.400 --> 01:01.440 So you're probably all aware of these facts, 01:01.440 --> 01:04.680 but to reiterate, carbon emissions contribute 01:05.800 --> 01:10.000 In the UK, over 10%, I mean, I used to think it was 20% 01:10.000 --> 01:12.340 and I saw government as just quoting a number back at me, 01:12.340 --> 01:15.680 but I think it's about 10% of all carbon emissions 01:15.680 --> 01:17.160 are from domestic space heating. 01:17.160 --> 01:19.880 So not water, you know, in the home, not offices, 01:19.880 --> 01:22.160 not cooking, domestic space heating. 01:22.160 --> 01:25.120 And the scary thing is that maybe half of that 01:27.800 --> 01:30.160 in to cut entire carbon emissions that we could just do 01:30.160 --> 01:31.800 without and be no colder. 01:31.800 --> 01:36.800 And one huge source of that waste is heating empty rooms, 01:36.800 --> 01:38.680 e.g. your bedrooms during the day. 01:38.680 --> 01:40.400 You sit downstairs in the lounge or whatever, 01:40.400 --> 01:42.759 and you only need them warm when you go to bed, 01:44.820 --> 01:48.680 And, you know, another problem we're trying to fix 01:48.680 --> 01:51.080 is that people do come out with technical solutions, 01:51.080 --> 01:55.600 but absurdly technical that need wifi and broadband 01:55.600 --> 01:59.080 and Bluetooth and I don't know. 01:59.080 --> 02:01.960 One of the systems I tried out, programmable radiator valve, 02:01.960 --> 02:05.120 I found too bloody complicated to use. 02:05.120 --> 02:08.240 And I have a master's degree in theoretical computer science 02:11.600 --> 02:14.780 which convinced me there needed to be a simpler solution. 02:23.280 --> 02:27.640 So one of the early things in Open TRV's existence 02:27.640 --> 02:31.600 was winning a prize at a thing run by British Gas, 02:31.600 --> 02:34.960 which preceded Hive, their connected homes thing. 02:34.960 --> 02:37.440 And it was noted that all the winners 02:37.440 --> 02:38.660 weren't actually connected. 02:38.660 --> 02:41.100 So we're kind of IoT without the eye, 02:41.100 --> 02:44.000 but we can do the eye and I'll show you some of that later. 02:44.000 --> 02:47.760 So what's the solution? 02:47.760 --> 02:51.520 So Red Bot attempts to make it all easy, 02:51.520 --> 02:53.800 solve all your problems, having to lift a finger 02:53.800 --> 02:55.940 by soft zoning. 02:55.940 --> 02:57.200 So a number of you have mentioned 02:57.200 --> 02:59.120 that you have multiple zones in your house. 02:59.120 --> 03:03.480 So it's not as it used to be, 03:03.480 --> 03:05.200 sort of when the arc was being launched, 03:05.200 --> 03:07.760 that is either all gets hot or it doesn't all get hot 03:07.760 --> 03:09.320 or even worse, you have to balance it 03:09.320 --> 03:13.000 'cause some bits overheat and some bits never get warm enough. 03:13.000 --> 03:17.200 Treat every occupied space as its own zone 03:17.200 --> 03:18.400 for heating control 03:19.440 --> 03:24.240 and do it without having actual pipes and valves to do it, 03:24.240 --> 03:25.960 but do it with soft zoning. 03:25.960 --> 03:27.600 And that's what Red Bot does. 03:27.600 --> 03:31.280 Now, some of you've been coalescing multiple radiators 03:31.280 --> 03:35.200 in a single room to make a zone, each Red Bot acts by itself. 03:35.200 --> 03:39.200 So each radiator really is the zone, 03:39.200 --> 03:46.520 but not vast quantity of rooms actually have two radiators. 03:46.520 --> 03:48.000 And anyway, Red Bot's quite happy 03:48.000 --> 03:50.400 to control those two radiators separately. 03:50.400 --> 03:52.160 So what's it all about? 03:52.160 --> 03:53.160 How do you save energy? 03:53.160 --> 03:55.680 Well, set back the temperature when the room is vacant 03:55.680 --> 03:57.600 and likely to be for a while, 03:57.600 --> 03:59.920 set it back further when you're even more sure, 04:01.640 --> 04:03.800 and on the other hand, start preheating the room 04:03.800 --> 04:05.120 when you're predicting occupancy. 04:05.120 --> 04:07.560 So hopefully you never walk into a cold room, 04:07.560 --> 04:12.760 but do not require anyone to do any programming 04:12.760 --> 04:16.160 or connectivity or pay attention, blah, blah, blah, blah. 04:21.240 --> 04:23.400 people don't know how to do it, don't do it very well, 04:23.400 --> 04:26.360 patterns change and they forget how to do the programming. 04:26.360 --> 04:29.800 It's a nuisance to program and it doesn't work very well. 04:29.800 --> 04:33.159 And there's reasonable evidence anyway 04:34.960 --> 04:38.200 on requiring your attention persist much better, 04:38.200 --> 04:40.800 maybe up to the life of the device rather than 04:40.800 --> 04:43.420 maybe one to four years otherwise. 04:43.420 --> 04:47.960 So Radbot's magic is, I do love it when people ask me 04:47.960 --> 04:49.080 in a pitch or something and say, 04:49.080 --> 04:50.360 so how does it work? 04:50.360 --> 04:54.000 And I say magic with a completely straight face. 04:54.000 --> 04:58.020 Mainly light, there are other things going on as well, 04:58.020 --> 05:00.080 but stuff like when you flick on the light 05:00.080 --> 05:02.320 or draw your coat and the robot knows you're there, 05:02.320 --> 05:05.160 when it's pitch black and always is at that time, 05:05.160 --> 05:07.520 it can be pretty sure you're either not there or asleep 05:07.520 --> 05:10.080 and don't need the heat cranked up, 05:10.080 --> 05:12.720 but it also detects your use of controls. 05:12.720 --> 05:15.440 And there's other things in development 05:15.440 --> 05:17.200 right at this moment. 05:17.200 --> 05:19.640 And then that setback size, well, we risk weight it. 05:19.640 --> 05:21.840 The more sure we are, you're not in the room, 05:21.840 --> 05:24.800 the further we allow the temperature setback. 05:24.800 --> 05:26.480 And in the middle of the night, when we're pretty sure 05:26.480 --> 05:27.320 that you don't need the heat, 05:27.320 --> 05:30.040 we set it back as much as six degrees, 05:30.040 --> 05:32.940 which in principle would be a 60% energy saving 05:32.940 --> 05:33.940 to a rule of thumb. 05:33.940 --> 05:39.920 One degree setback for its duration is about 10% 05:39.920 --> 05:44.120 of the heat requirement for that duration. 05:44.120 --> 05:47.240 Brief history, oh, go back to 2009 or something, 05:47.240 --> 05:51.960 David McKay was writing Sustainable Energy 05:51.960 --> 05:53.280 Without the Hot Air. 05:53.280 --> 05:55.080 And we were talking about all sorts of things 05:55.080 --> 05:56.520 from solar panels onwards. 05:56.520 --> 05:57.680 And that's a tiny credit to me, 05:57.680 --> 05:59.560 somewhere in the depths of the book. 05:59.560 --> 06:03.880 When he got to DEC, he claimed he wrote himself 06:03.880 --> 06:07.200 the chief scientist role at DEC by writing that book. 06:07.200 --> 06:09.320 And we continue chatting about what was likely 06:09.320 --> 06:11.160 to be the best carbon bang for the buck. 06:11.160 --> 06:12.240 What should we do? 06:12.240 --> 06:13.840 I was very keen to do something. 06:13.840 --> 06:17.080 And we decided probably domestic space heating 06:17.080 --> 06:18.320 was really ripe for improvement. 06:18.320 --> 06:20.080 People do it really badly. 06:20.080 --> 06:22.320 Less than half the systems in England, for example, 06:22.320 --> 06:25.120 would meet current building regs. 06:25.120 --> 06:27.480 They wouldn't be allowed to be built. 06:27.480 --> 06:30.380 And those are pretty poor regs. 06:30.380 --> 06:36.400 He invited me to organize a meeting. 06:36.400 --> 06:40.640 He invited me to lead a meeting at the end of 2012 06:40.640 --> 06:43.680 about home heating, including zoning. 06:43.680 --> 06:45.680 The great and the good were there, academics 06:45.680 --> 06:47.680 and people from BRE and so on. 06:47.680 --> 06:49.100 We all agreed that zoning was good 06:49.100 --> 06:51.520 and probably some other things as well. 06:51.520 --> 06:54.040 So, and some chat from one of the big companies said, 06:54.040 --> 06:55.400 oh, and I'll send you all our kit, which does it. 06:55.400 --> 06:56.440 Well, nothing happened. 06:56.440 --> 06:57.680 And the government didn't do anything. 06:57.680 --> 07:00.600 I kind of sent a snippy email in January saying, 07:00.600 --> 07:01.880 well, what have you done? 07:01.880 --> 07:02.720 It's been months. 07:02.720 --> 07:03.560 You haven't done anything. 07:03.560 --> 07:04.600 And they said, we're government. 07:04.600 --> 07:06.520 We don't do anything in a hurry. 07:06.520 --> 07:11.440 So in 2013, I started the open CRV open source project, 07:11.440 --> 07:12.280 which is still there. 07:12.280 --> 07:13.800 And we'll talk about it in a minute. 07:13.800 --> 07:18.160 And in about 2014, created the company. 07:18.160 --> 07:22.240 And about 2018 got some really good investors on board. 07:22.240 --> 07:25.360 And we changed the name of the company 07:25.360 --> 07:29.200 to one that wouldn't frighten utilities and thus Vestemi. 07:29.200 --> 07:30.680 And we're commercializing it 07:30.680 --> 07:33.560 because it's no good being a boutique tinkerer. 07:33.560 --> 07:35.560 There's more than a billion rads, 07:35.560 --> 07:38.360 which should benefit from a rad bot. 07:38.360 --> 07:42.360 And we're not going to get there by tinkering. 07:42.360 --> 07:44.520 We need some real commercial oomph there. 07:44.520 --> 07:46.600 We've done testing. 07:46.600 --> 07:49.640 So Energy House, I don't know if any of you saw Energy House 2 07:49.640 --> 07:51.320 was launched today, which is rather good 07:51.320 --> 07:52.760 where they've got Energy House 1. 07:52.760 --> 07:55.640 They've got a whole Victorian end of terrace inside a lab. 07:55.640 --> 07:57.080 So we tested in there. 07:57.080 --> 07:59.720 So we're about 25% energy savings. 07:59.720 --> 08:01.920 And we just completed two years of trials 08:01.920 --> 08:06.440 with Bays and Off-Gem money in real houses, 08:06.440 --> 08:08.600 more than 100 real houses. 08:08.600 --> 08:11.520 And we've done other testing, qualitative testing. 08:11.520 --> 08:12.960 And yes, it works. 08:12.960 --> 08:14.240 We're pretty sure it actually works. 08:14.240 --> 08:17.800 It's not a figment of my imagination as the inventor. 08:17.800 --> 08:19.920 We're still arguing about how much it works 08:19.920 --> 08:21.840 because it's really difficult to measure. 08:21.840 --> 08:26.120 But we've got good numbers and our target is up to 30%. 08:26.120 --> 08:27.360 So what are we doing now? 08:27.360 --> 08:28.640 Sales, sales, sales. 08:28.640 --> 08:30.840 Every rad bot can save as much as a tenth 08:30.840 --> 08:33.480 of a ton of carbon per year from its rad. 08:36.760 --> 08:38.120 And there's quite good-- 08:38.120 --> 08:40.320 oh, I've got a missing bracket there-- 08:45.560 --> 08:51.160 in a few hundred bytes of code on an AVR. 08:51.160 --> 08:53.120 So that's what it looks like. 08:53.120 --> 08:55.680 You don't have to keep your finger on the rad bot. 08:55.680 --> 08:57.840 You are allowed to walk away. 08:57.840 --> 08:59.640 But that's the boost button on top, if you see. 08:59.640 --> 09:01.720 And I press it to close nice and red. 09:01.720 --> 09:03.720 Otherwise, it's just like a normal TRV. 09:03.720 --> 09:06.920 You set the temperature you want on the dial. 09:06.920 --> 09:09.160 And rad bot, when you're in the room, 09:09.160 --> 09:11.960 will do its damnedest to make sure that is the temperature. 09:11.960 --> 09:14.480 Clearly, it can't work miracles if your boiler isn't on or 09:14.480 --> 09:15.200 something. 09:15.200 --> 09:17.280 But it will do its damnedest. 09:17.280 --> 09:19.320 Rad bot will also, with a boiler controller, 09:19.320 --> 09:21.920 but it's not the way we're selling it, 09:21.920 --> 09:23.680 any rad bot can call for heat. 09:23.680 --> 09:28.520 And so if you do that boost, it will turn the boiler on for you. 09:28.520 --> 09:32.520 So some alphabets, alphabets spaghetti, 09:32.520 --> 09:36.520 SAP, GHD, ECo3, alphabet soup. 09:36.520 --> 09:40.360 So where would we be without TLAs and ETLAs? 09:40.360 --> 09:42.760 And for those who don't know, three letter acronyms and 09:42.760 --> 09:45.760 extended three letter acronyms. 09:45.760 --> 09:47.840 So we've had some pretty industry awards, 09:47.840 --> 09:49.200 like the one down in bottom right, 09:49.200 --> 09:51.520 which I seem to only got a monochrome version of. 09:51.520 --> 09:53.400 It was shiny, the original one. 09:53.400 --> 09:56.040 But the important thing was that at the very end of September, 09:56.040 --> 09:58.320 we went into the SAP tables. 09:58.320 --> 10:00.960 SAP is the standard assessment procedure, 10:00.960 --> 10:03.760 which, for example, drives your energy performance 10:03.760 --> 10:05.800 certificate for your house. 10:05.800 --> 10:08.640 And you need to get on that to go into all sorts of programmes. 10:08.640 --> 10:12.320 And for example, now people can pay for rad bots under the green 10:12.320 --> 10:15.720 homes grant as a secondary measure. 10:15.720 --> 10:18.280 And the thing that we're currently pending is all our 10:18.280 --> 10:20.960 stuff is sitting with off gem to go and spot up on their fingers 10:20.960 --> 10:24.280 and toes and see if they will accredit us for the ECo3 10:24.280 --> 10:27.160 program. 10:27.160 --> 10:28.320 So how does it work? 10:28.320 --> 10:32.400 Well, I told you magic already, but maybe you won't believe me. 10:32.400 --> 10:39.040 It's just like a mechanical TRV for the normal human beings we 10:39.040 --> 10:39.680 want to use it. 10:39.680 --> 10:41.920 If we're going to get anything like a billion of them in, 10:41.920 --> 10:43.760 it can't be too fancy. 10:43.760 --> 10:46.040 So it's just like a mechanical TRV. 10:46.040 --> 10:48.680 And like a more normal mechanical TRV, 10:48.680 --> 10:51.480 one of its jobs is to stop overheating. 10:51.480 --> 10:55.880 And it quite took me by surprise to put one of our case studies, 10:55.880 --> 10:58.680 someone was in quite a new house, only six years old, 10:58.680 --> 11:01.960 which I assumed Radbot wouldn't be able to do much for. 11:01.960 --> 11:06.520 But they said that downstairs was always too hot, 11:06.520 --> 11:08.040 whatever they set their TRVs to. 11:08.040 --> 11:09.920 And upstairs was so cold that they 11:09.920 --> 11:12.560 had to run an electric heater. 11:12.560 --> 11:16.440 Well, they put TR of Radbots in, and it stopped both problems 11:16.440 --> 11:18.360 because it's presumably the one downstairs 11:18.360 --> 11:19.720 was close to their boiler. 11:19.720 --> 11:23.280 And Radbots really quite forceful about turning the Rad off 11:23.280 --> 11:24.760 when it wants to be. 11:24.760 --> 11:27.920 And it let more heat go upstairs when they wanted it. 11:27.920 --> 11:30.520 So fabs, so it can stop overheating as well as 11:30.520 --> 11:31.600 the other. 11:31.600 --> 11:33.120 It's got the boost button. 11:33.120 --> 11:36.720 Big problem that used to annoy me as I'm still school resources 11:36.720 --> 11:40.200 governor is come to pick my kids up on a cold winter's evening 11:40.200 --> 11:41.800 and see all the windows open because they're 11:41.800 --> 11:44.440 being a bit cold in the morning, turned everything up to max, 11:44.440 --> 11:46.840 forgotten, massively overheated, and they 11:46.840 --> 11:50.600 have to turn everything off, all the windows. 11:50.600 --> 11:52.640 So you press the boost button. 11:52.640 --> 11:55.280 It basically raises the temperature threshold 11:55.280 --> 11:58.080 for 10 degrees for half an hour and then goes back 11:58.080 --> 12:01.400 to where it was before, so you don't need to remember. 12:01.400 --> 12:03.800 Radbot is driven by occupancy and vacancy detection, 12:03.800 --> 12:05.680 including some optimum on, optimum off, 12:05.680 --> 12:07.840 a mixture of live detection and prediction. 12:07.840 --> 12:09.880 So it's got a kind of rolling seven day memory 12:09.880 --> 12:14.040 of various things like occupancy level, temperature, and so on. 12:14.040 --> 12:16.600 It's got multiple sensors, light, temperature, 12:16.600 --> 12:19.400 which it needs to regulate the room temperature, obviously, 12:19.400 --> 12:20.240 humidity. 12:20.240 --> 12:23.360 So we do some things to reduce condensation risk 12:23.360 --> 12:24.840 and use of controls. 12:24.840 --> 12:27.680 Outputs, it's got motor valve controls. 12:27.680 --> 12:32.080 There's a little motor which drives the pin up and down. 12:32.080 --> 12:34.320 And some haptics, I can do the equivalent of your phone 12:34.320 --> 12:37.200 vibrating to tell you something's going on. 12:37.200 --> 12:41.560 There's an LED at the top, and there's a radio. 12:41.560 --> 12:43.480 We are probably going to do a cheap one 12:43.480 --> 12:45.280 to get costs down with no radio fitted, 12:45.280 --> 12:48.800 but nonetheless, it is happy to send properly 12:48.800 --> 12:54.000 encrypted stats frames in JSON across the radio, which 12:54.000 --> 12:57.520 will get across a typical house, cheap radio. 12:57.520 --> 13:01.160 And there's some patent pending cleverness too. 13:01.160 --> 13:08.000 We are galloping towards an expedited patent 13:08.000 --> 13:11.520 of our first patent, which means it'll land in a year, we hope, 13:11.520 --> 13:13.320 and four other ones as well. 13:13.320 --> 13:15.760 So I'd have to kill you all if I tell you about some 13:15.760 --> 13:17.560 of the stuff that's pending. 13:17.560 --> 13:21.400 But lots of it is to do with making lots and lots of value 13:21.400 --> 13:22.960 out of the cheap sensors in here. 13:22.960 --> 13:25.840 These are not fabulously expensive, 13:25.840 --> 13:28.680 highly calibrated sensors, but we can do a lot with them. 13:28.680 --> 13:31.400 And so for example, when we use lighting to detect occupants, 13:31.400 --> 13:32.320 we're doing all sorts of things. 13:32.320 --> 13:33.440 We're doing edge detection. 13:33.440 --> 13:35.280 We're looking at how much it wobbles. 13:35.280 --> 13:36.960 We're looking at level detection. 13:36.960 --> 13:40.480 We look at what typical things are by hour of day and so on. 13:40.480 --> 13:43.520 Anyway, on savings in Energy House, 13:43.520 --> 13:47.640 which is this Victorian end of terrace inside a lab, 13:47.640 --> 13:50.200 we were seeing, for example, 60% savings of energy 13:50.200 --> 13:53.920 in the bedrooms, 25% for the whole house. 13:53.920 --> 13:59.040 We think realistic is 30% for houses for which it's suited. 13:59.040 --> 14:04.080 So if you're in a tiny one bedroom studio or studio flat, 14:04.080 --> 14:05.920 which is modern and well insulated, 14:05.920 --> 14:07.840 Redpot isn't going to help you much. 14:07.840 --> 14:11.440 It wouldn't in a passive house either, 14:11.440 --> 14:12.760 because zoning won't have much effect. 14:12.760 --> 14:14.720 But if you're in a big old draughty house which 14:14.720 --> 14:18.280 loses heat like the clappers, yes, Redpot is your friend. 14:18.280 --> 14:20.640 OK, some secrets for you. 14:20.640 --> 14:26.280 Now, you can tell me again if I could show you this again 14:26.280 --> 14:27.240 after we come off. 14:27.240 --> 14:28.520 I'm hoping you can see. 14:28.520 --> 14:31.040 I've just taken the lid off of Redpot, 14:31.040 --> 14:32.360 and you won't be able to see it. 14:32.360 --> 14:34.480 But inside the cap is a little row 14:34.480 --> 14:39.120 of pads there, which includes power and serial. 14:39.120 --> 14:42.400 So if you look at the Open TRV documentation, 14:42.400 --> 14:48.360 you'll see that there's a documented 4800 board 8N1 14:48.360 --> 14:51.080 serial interface with a CLI on it, which means you can do 14:51.080 --> 14:53.880 things like set the key and the ID 14:53.880 --> 14:56.920 and do some other bits and pieces. 14:56.920 --> 15:01.240 And any stats, as provided you've got the key. 15:00.000 --> 15:07.440 know the IDs, the existing open TRV stats hub and boiler controller received stats, 15:07.440 --> 15:15.000 and there is a little graph courtesy of new plot of occupancy from all the sensors, all 15:15.000 --> 15:21.120 radiative valves in my house a bit of last month. And if you look carefully, you can 15:21.120 --> 15:25.320 probably see the difference. I think that's a weekend first one, the kids in and the kids 15:25.320 --> 15:29.360 not in and different patterns of usage during the day, of course, under lockdown, a bit 15:29.360 --> 15:35.280 more occupancy that would otherwise be the case. So a summary, it's been an overnight 15:35.280 --> 15:41.160 success that took eight years. We've got we receiving accreditations, we've won some awards, 15:41.160 --> 15:46.640 we've got 1000 devices still in stock, we're hoping to make, well, 10s of 1000s, if not 15:46.640 --> 15:53.080 100,000 next year, we're ready for the green homes grant and eco three, or eco three sorry, 15:53.080 --> 15:59.080 is the energy company obligation. Third round of the program where the government pays to 15:59.080 --> 16:05.560 put improve the energy performance of the homes of people who are fuel poor or vulnerable. 16:05.560 --> 16:11.000 About a quarter of the population is eligible for that. Our aim is save mega tons of co2 16:11.000 --> 16:16.620 affordably and simply, we also aim to reduce fuel poverty to put up that horrible eating 16:16.620 --> 16:21.560 versus heating dilemma for some people. And we want to go on supporting tinkering in a 16:21.560 --> 16:28.140 way that doesn't terrify our investors. So there are some links for you the product has 16:28.140 --> 16:34.520 its own page radbot.com. There was a count Radbot if you go and search for Radbot in 16:34.520 --> 16:42.780 Wikipedia. Vestemi is the company. And if you want to go and look at the open TRV reference 16:42.780 --> 16:47.680 code which still exists the open source stuff that's in GitHub. And there's also a wiki 16:47.680 --> 16:53.400 on there. And if you want to drop me an email, there's my email address.